One last obnoxious newbie question:
How would you all succinctly describe this musical style to someone who knew nothing about it.
Is it entirely timbrally defined (I've heard a lot of funk and syncopated R&B rhythms in
examples Grey David has played for me, just very, very distorted but I've also heard four on the floor stuff , too)
How does it differ from it's closest cousins (and by that I mean Industrial, EBM, Noise, et. al.)?
How would you all succinctly describe this musical style to someone who knew nothing about it.
Is it entirely timbrally defined (I've heard a lot of funk and syncopated R&B rhythms in
examples Grey David has played for me, just very, very distorted but I've also heard four on the floor stuff , too)
How does it differ from it's closest cousins (and by that I mean Industrial, EBM, Noise, et. al.)?
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 10:41 PMFrom my perspective in its essence it is rhythmic oriented and favors manipulation of timbre instead of pitched elements as the driving compositional force.
It's near cousins are the more rhythmically oriented subgenres of techno (hard techno, etc).
Things blur though... Techno in its actual genre distinction (IE not electronic dance music as a whole) covers quite a bit of ground although in general it is rhythmic oriented, however some sub genres feature more melodic elements.
The same with powernoise; it is not all strictly rhythmic oriented all the time, but the best stuff is... ;P
In general there are less break downs in rhythmic oriented genres compared to melodic verse/chorus/verse genres such as EBM, trance, house, etc.
In regard to DJing the rhythmic orientation of powernoise and hard techno is where the interplay of timbre via consistent overlapping of multiple sources and EQ manipulation let alone cutting and other mixing tricks really shines.
Few approach this in industrial clubs here...
Combichrist, et al including Das Bunker has tried to push TBM (techno body music); to that end I say get real... -
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Thu, January 4, 2007 - 4:12 PMThanks for that definition, Catharsis,
Yeah, what turned me on about all the myriad of things that my friend Grey David (an excellent DJ, by the way)
played for me from this genre was that it was really timbrally oriented and quite adventuresome, rhythmically
speaking. In fact,some of the things he played for me (and I can't remember any names) had a lot
of funk influences, rhytymically speaking (and by that I mean they had a lot fo 16th off beat syncopation orientation).
Whatever it was, I fucking loved it; want to hear more of it; want to write in that genre.
I myself spent 25 years in the world fusion movement so I have learned an incredible amount of really beautiful
and sexy rhythms that sound fantastic when they are timbrally manipulated. I've been working with taking
Middleastern darbukka rhythms, West African djembe rhythms, Balkan tupan rhythms, even Celtic bodhran rhythms and running the tradtional instruments through really heavy octave distortion, rhythmic modulation effects and filters. With some of these things,
you'd never know what the original sonic source is of these recordings. Most of these rhythms are simple, too so they are
easily manipulated without the complexity of the timbre overwhelming the listeners ear because of the complexity of the rhythm.
I don't know if there is a purism factor in power noize, rhythmically speaking but it seemed to me that there is such rhythmic diversity in what I've heard so far that pretty much anything goes rhythmically speaking...................
would you say that's true, Catharsis?
by the way, do you make power noize yourself?
does anyone else in this tribe? -
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Thu, January 4, 2007 - 5:21 PM>I don't know if there is a purism factor in power noize, rhythmically speaking but it seemed to me that there is such rhythmic diversity in what I've heard so far that pretty much anything goes rhythmically speaking...................
Most folks producing power noise are not classically trained or have studied music forms and history, so it is essentially anything goes.
I also think it is hard to say there is direct purism factor involved with power noise as labels such as Ant Zen which are known to release a lot of power noise actually release a wide variety of darker EDM. So, there never was a definitive source/label that is strictly power noise. Even festivals that are labeled as primarily power noise such as Maschinenfest feature a fairly wide variety of dark EDM to not so dark:
www.youtube.com/watch (ok this is the last DJ in the merch area..)
>by the way, do you make power noize yourself?
I do and will release more in '07 and beyond. I have an ideal on the way I want to to work in studio and am getting that together before producing more music. In general I'm interested in a fusion of analog and digital production and the analog side is taking a bit of time to acquire. My largest complaint about power noise is the reliance of artists to use purely digital production techniques. The cost reasons are obvious, but this lends to a very cold/hard (digital) sound and when combined with hypercompression / overboard limiting (as a lot of the European releases are) the end listening experience is unsatisfying for me at least.
Currently I am working on getting my new studio built out which is focusing on advanced spatialization. I'm building a 24.8 3D surround array setup in a sphere. This environment lends itself a good deal to an atmospheric approach, so I'm also looking forward to doing a lot of dark ambient production with new software/production techniques as well as power noise and hard techno.. I simply phrase the intersection of the two as industrial-techno.
Simply put hard techno (and techno for the most part) has been abandoned by the mainline EDM scene (rave scene if you will) in the SF Bay Area.. There are few and far between any "real" hard techno events featuring current artists/producers relevant in the genre in the US let alone the west coast. In the same direction strangely enough power noise is not really accepted at the industrial clubs from those running them here in the SF Bay Area. For instance there is a "no-powernoise" ban at Meat... So, it really remains at best fringe in the clubs.
Of course there is Das Bunker in LA and I only made their 9 year event, so I haven't been to the club night itself, but again just a regional hot spot. -
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Thu, January 4, 2007 - 5:46 PMCool to hear you are making your own stuff.
I hear what you say also about digital coldness in a lot of music being produced.
Considering that unless you are pressing vinyl that you have to go through digital media anyway (CD, DVD, Mp3)
another route to go is the whole digital acoustic modelling.
I'm a Universal Audio representing artist and I've been using their excellent series of plugs (that come with the UAD-1 pci card) that model
all the priciest and most sought after anaglogue recording gear from tube limiters to optical compressors to
preamplifiers and this stuff really warms up a recording, audibly speaking.
I spent 25 years in analogue, tape based recording studios as a studio musician and as producer and even occasional engineer so I know what the sound of this gear is. They have really captured it in their digital modellings. They have a Roland RE 501 tape delay emulation
that is actually better than the original. You can even tell the machine how dirty and used your tape is in the machine for those incredible
timbral disintegrations that would occur in dub recordings.
oh, and one last pesky question
IDM = Intelligent Dance Music
EBM = Electro Body Music
what does EDM stand for in your last post?
Also, if you are planning on producing some spatial dark ambient music this year you should definitely contact me
off of this list, I have something to tell you that I imagine you will find very intriguing in that regard. I just can't talk about it
in a public forum yet because details are not 100% yet. -
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Thu, January 4, 2007 - 6:36 PMNot to get overly techy:
>Considering that unless you are pressing vinyl that you have to go through digital media anyway (CD, DVD, Mp3) another route to go is the whole digital acoustic modelling.
There is much more head room in modern digital recording than say to tape. The problem is the loudness war and I'd rather know the producer created that square wave than the mastering engineer; if both do it it goes to beyond all hell...
One can achieve wonderfully warm recordings via digital media; just few do especially in the power noise arena.
All EDM vinyl these days being pressed comes primarly from digital sources.
>what does EDM stand for in your last post?
Electronic Dance Music; I use this for the all encompasing term of many genres instead of "techno".
>I'm a Universal Audio representing artist and I've been using their excellent series of plugs (that come with the UAD-1 pci card) that model
Software will continue to improve of course, however not much can top a 909 or Elektron MachineDrum going through various analog effects in regard to producing power noise. My goal is in the combination of both areas in the production process. The trick is getting as big of a sound before hitting the computer; a good A/D is as important as compression/EQ (analog side). Once in the box one can go off and do all the digital trickery to hearts content.
Drum loop at the end of this video...
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 8:53 AMif you haven't already, you need to listen to This Morn' Omina. -
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 11:42 AMjust got back from perusing your sonic destruction trio video, very nice.
no wonder you're hooked on analogue.
for me, the Jomox was the king of that demonstration.
I went online but could only find that box at their online store.
Does anyone distribute it in the US and what did you pay for yours, out of
curiosity.
Have you, by the way heard the Mutronics Mutator? I heard a demo of it once years
ago and it's quite pricey but it had the most extreme filtering effects I've ever heard.
I enjoy my Elecxtric Filter Factory but it's not in the same league (though I love it's ability to
do really controllable rhythmic effects.
In the new Looperlative live looping device that I'll be demoing at the NAMM show in a couple of weeks (come
by the Looperlative booth if anyone is down there and please say you read this at the power noize tribe)
there is a scramble function that is really beautiful. You can make a really chaotic noise track that is not very long;
loop it and then the Looperlative will chop it into equal increments and randomly scramble the bits to create
a constant out put of rhythmic noise (or whatever). I was working with it last night and it's a wonderful tool
for beginning a piece with ambience or randomized chaos and suddenly turning it into a groove thang!
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 11:43 AManswered my own question................analogue haven has it offered for $300 (ouch, those beautiful botique
effects boxes that are so pricey) but they don't have the new black ones in stock yet.
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Re: Definition of Power Noize
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 3:24 PM>just got back from perusing your sonic destruction trio video, very nice. no wonder you're hooked on analogue.
Some other dudes video... Though I'm looking at at least 2 of those boxes and erm some stuff a little more pricey.. doh..
>Have you, by the way heard the Mutronics Mutator?
Well one of those more pricey boxes I'm picking up is the Schippmann Ebbe & Flut... Mutator is old news.. ;P
Though less gear more power noise talk.. ;P -
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boring tech talk: don't read unless you are interested in it specifically
Sat, January 6, 2007 - 10:34 PMyou said,"
Though less gear more power noise talk.."
This music is soooooo equipment specific when it comes to it's sounds and timbres
that I think it is fascianting to talk about the tools.
Let's face it. An acoustic guitar, some bongos and a revox tape deck aint gonna cut it in this world.
I put a disclaimer on the sujbect though, so people don't have to read the thread.
That's the beauty of thread names.................you know what NOT to read a lot of times.
.and though the Mutator is old news, it's still out of my price range and I'd give my left testicle
to own one. What's the Shippmann Ebbe & Flut...... do that the Mutator doesn't.
I've heard that the Mutator slays the Sherman Filterbank and the Electrix Filter Factory. Your opinion? -
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Re: boring tech talk: don't read unless you are interested in it specifically
Sat, January 6, 2007 - 11:52 PM>Let's face it. An acoustic guitar, some bongos and a revox tape deck aint gonna cut it in this world.
Don't make me make a power noise EP with these tools; and erm some analog processing.. ;P
>What's the Shippmann Ebbe & Flut...... do that the Mutator doesn't.
Released in '06.. It just benefits from a more modern design. It also has a built in soft knee compressor & distortion sections which will come in handy especially in a live scenario.
www.schippmann-music.com/ebbeu...t.html
Filter Factory was low quality. Sherman is good for what it does which is as much distortion oriented as the filter functionality. I have two of them. The Mutator is entirely different as it is a stereo filter and much smoother than the Sherman. The Ebbe & Flut is in the same class as the Mutator, but offers additional and unique creative possibilities.
I was working towards a Mutator before I heard the E&F. -
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Re: boring tech talk: don't read unless you are interested in it specifically
Sun, January 7, 2007 - 3:36 AMYou'd be proud of me, Catharsis.
For Christmas my wife (at my behest) bought me a Berhringer Feedback Destroyer
so that I can specifically use radical distortion on my vocals live with out having feedback
tear everyone's head off.
I haven't even tried it out yet but I think it's going to work.
I have my first noise show this coming Sunday at the Anno Domini Gallery on
1st Street in San Jose.
I've been getting some really incredible sounds out of contact microphones and incredible
distorted gongs, kalimbas, marimbulas and voice.
One of the things (and this is more noise than power noise, although who knows because I just might get
really rhythmic with what I do---------I'm giving myself permission to just go nuts and do anything that inspires me
considering I will be doing a very contained and 'professional' demo of the Looperlative at the NAMM show coming up.
One experiment that has been really cool has been to use really powerful ball shaped magnets on either side of
small tuned chinese wind gongs---the flat kind. By striking the gongs, the mallets will travel on each side (attracted
to each other through the metal of the gong). The movement causes acoustic filtering effects as the magnets roll over
nodal points on the gongs. Some beautiful and random melodies occur.
Come on down if you aren't doing anything on Sunday night (the 13th) and I'll comp you into the show.
I['m playing with a travelling group from Portland called 'yourdrugsmymoney' who are pretty interesting.
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